The Range Rover Effect

"TheDouble-ClutchBandit" (TheDouble-ClutchBandit) 07/17/2014 at 12:17 • Filed to: range rover

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Odysseus had his men tie him to a post as a precautionary measure to forgo the Sirens' call. The Odyssey would have been a much different story, however, if he said "You know guys, f*ck it, let's go get cryptozoological with these hussies." Control of will power and foresight are two things that pretty much everyone, at least at some point in their life, completely and utterly fail at. Most people just don't even try a lot of the time. You know what I'm talking about. I don't need to give examples or citations for this. For the most part, it's relatively harmless. "Oh no, I had an extra scoop of ice cream," or "Well, I guess another cigarette won't get me that much closer to lung cancer." It's very much a "f*ck it" attitude—and we all fall victims.

When it really hurts though, you lose big time.

Case in point: the Range Rover. The Range Rover has, arguably, always been a machine about a lifestyle: specifically, a high-life lifestyle. When I think "Range Rover," I think of a wealthy, slightly grey-haired Briton with a pipe and green Indiana Jones-style jacket. He's wearing a hat, one that's a little odd but not stupid, and he's driving in the countryside of England with a few Jack Russell terriers. Fox hunting with handcrafted shotguns. The sun, peering ever so slightly from between clouds in the otherwise gloomy, English skies. That's all before he has high tea with the Queen.

Ok now here's the Range Rover in reality: blacked-out lights, 38-inch chrome rims, custom emblems with the initials of whichever insufferable douchenozzle owns it, and it's probably going 75 in a 35. Turn signals? Forget it. Somehow, someway, this is much closer to reality than the former thing I mentioned about that "toff," (as they call them in England-land)—the image that Charles Spencer King, creator of the Range Rover intended the luxury off-roader to be. Notice I say "off-roader" and not "urban-cruiser," or "concrete jungle-mobile."

But regardless of the reality, people still think of Range Rovers as charming, off-road ready, classy SUVs (the first, nicer thing I said). This notion is precisely why they have retained popularity. Because people think of them as not a car, but a lifestyle. They want in on it.

The Range Rover is the Siren, and you, yes you , are Odysseus.

Can you resist the calls of the Sirens?

Before you answer that, allow me to explain why I've decided to give the Range Rover this pariah-status as a Siren (Which, by definition, is a crazy hot femme fatale who lures you to her nubile bod with her singing and then eviscerates you with her ratchet fingernails or something. I read the Odyssey a long time ago, details are fuzzy. You get the idea.). In order to explain myself, I've broken the reasoning down into a few steps, so here goes.

Let's start with the obvious. Range Rovers are expensive. Very expensive. A base Sport starts at $63,525, and the real Range Rover begins at $84,225. If you want a long wheelbase Autobiography, the money starts at a whopping $143,025 ( !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ). For those of you with difficulty comprehending exactly how much that is, that's about enough money to buy everyone in Burkina Faso a Craigslist Miata. Yeah. And you know what? It gets worse.

This is a sore subject among Range Rover fans, but it's also inevitable in a discussion about the practicality of buying a car: reliability. The very word sends Range Rover owners into a cold sweat, a panic. Heart rate increases, blood gets pumping, numb arm, heart attack, dead. It really is that bad. Jalopnik's very own Doug DeMuro has been chronicling this very issue ( !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ) with his CarMax-bought Range Rover. There has been some debate now as to whether the newer models (beginning in 2013) are more reliable than their predecessors or not.

Well, they aren't. Here's a CarFax history report for a 2013 Range Rover that's for sale at a local car dealership.

http://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory…

In case the link expired, here's my horrible screenshot-and-crop job:

As you can see, at just over a year old it needed the battery, radiator, and water pump replaced. Those were just the physical parts; take a look at the electronics. By the looks of it, owner number one was not a happy camper (probably because while going on a camping trip, his/her new Range Rover broke down before it left the driveway). The expenses pile up, and it does become rather annoying when the new car you just bought is falling apart worse than your housekeeper's 1983 Toyota Tercel that has a brake light cover made of red duct tape.

This is the part where I mention the market charge. The "market charge" as it is euphemistically referred to, is a dealer surcharge. I visited a local Land Rover-Range Rover-Jaguar-Aston Martin dealership to check out specifics. The dealership had only 1 big Rangie for sale, and it had a surcharge of $20,000. No, that was not a typo. In order to have the privilege of buying a Range Rover, you need to fork over an extra chunk of change equivalent to approximately 20-30 Craigslist Miatas. The car was normally $122,000, so that comes to an extra 16-and-a-bit%. That's all before taxes, license, registration, and whatever dealer extras you may want. I asked the salesman (who was very polite and helpful, for the record, as was everyone else there who I talked to) how much the dealership would be willing to negotiate on downsizing the surcharge if I were to pay with a check. He said maybe down to just $10,000, instead of $20,000 (10-15 Craigslist Miatas). What a fantastic bargain. (For the record, I never went there to actually buy a car, I wanted to go on a test drive to burn time before a Genius Bar appointment at the Apple store).

The salesman also told me, and I do not seem to be able to get a straight answer on this, that you cannot option the car to your exact specification from the factory. I have not clue whether or not this is true, so if someone could enlighten me, that would be great. He did say though, that whatever they get in is what they have to sell.

Beyond having to pay out your, and everyone in your extended family's collective ass for this lump of British exquisiteness, you need to do something a little odd to be able to buy the car. You need to prove that, immediately after you buy the car, you aren't going to dump it on the next dingy to Beijing to be sold at enormous profit. The demand for Range Rovers in China means that wealthy Chinese come here and try to buy the cars for export back to China. This doesn't go over so well with the dealerships. In fact, it means than anyone who wants to buy a Range Rover needs to not only prove that they live and are going to stay in the US, but that they can responsibly afford it by providing bank statements for the past few months to a year. Apparently, the export market got around the system by wiring money to US citizens (generally with lower incomes) to buy a Range Rover for them, for some cut of money. For example, if you had $0.73 in your bank account for the past 9 months and suddenly you have $175,000, they won't sell it to you unless you can prove that you earned the money yourself (won at a casino, insurance claim, found in a chest under an overpass, etc.). Even when you do provide all this paperwork to the dealership, it can take a month or more to get everything sorted and get your car. It's almost less difficult to get US citizenship (yes, that was hyperbole).

Despite all the costs, the pain, the time, the heartache, the heart attacks, and the wait, people still buy Range Rovers. In fact, they've posted record sales figures recently. It seems then that a lack of foresight and willpower is rife in the automotive world. This doesn't exactly come as a shock, though.

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For the person who this article may actually be of use to: What if you have a lot of money to spend on a car—is it worth it then? Probably not, if it constantly exposes its "little foibles" in the form of massive component failures. At that point, it's a waste of your time. Time is money. And if you're rich, you don't have the time to waste—you need to keep creating jobs for the peons and knaves who service your car. On second thought, keep on buying. We need the jobs.

Here's where I sound like a contradictory idiot. I like Range Rovers. I think they're beautiful, and have some of the coolest tech in the car world. I love the idea of a luxury off-roader, and it is arguably the most off-road capable in the world (if it holds together). If I owned one, I would go to the local mountains with it on weekends and have a blast off-roading (I'd probably be the only person in the world to off-road one). Ol' Spen King (the "bloke" standing next to that handsome blue Rangie) would be proud of me, even if the latest incarnation of Range Rover is not what he would have liked. I, however, have will power and will not buy one. I can resist the Sirens' call.

That being said:

If anyone has a first generation 3-door Range Rover, preferably with a manual, 3.9-liter engine, tan leather, wood trim, green exterior—give me a call.

Sincerely,

TDB

Picture Sources as they appear:

https://redfellow.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/etty.j…

http://cdn-1.thejameslist.com/data/images/12…

http://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory…

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cazzyodo > TheDouble-ClutchBandit 07/17/2014 at 12:25

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My boss bought a RR Sport last year, used of course, and loves it. He spends weekends cleaning it, making it sparkle, shine and burn your retinas in the right light. He won't shut up about it.

And he's looking at a beater of a car to go to the beach in.

THAT'S what I think of now when I think of a Range Rover owner. It makes me sad.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > TheDouble-ClutchBandit 07/17/2014 at 12:25

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The salesman also told me, and I do not seem to be able to get a straight answer on this, that you cannot option the car to your exact specification from the factory.

U wot m8

Though I don't know, I strongly suspect this is total bullshit. I base this on knowing that you *can* option Defenders absolutely however the fuck you want, and have been able to option previous models up, down, or out the wazoo. Based on this and previous, your JLR dude sounds... iffy.

The 3.9 I think came some time after the 3-door went away, though I may be wrong. Most 3-doors if not all would thus have the 3.5, which while not without issues is less likely to drop a liner or otherwise crack up. If a 3.9 or 3.5, I'm not that sure whether you want the 14-CUX fuel injection (complicated as hell) or the SU carbs (irritatingly unreliable if not driven), but as long as you go paleo-Rangy enough, you don't have a lot of the electronic tomfoolery up to and including the air ride.

Mikeado > TheDouble-ClutchBandit 07/17/2014 at 12:34

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'Thither' means 'There.' Thou shalt come hither!

TheDouble-ClutchBandit > Mikeado 07/17/2014 at 12:47

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It sounds thesp-y enough.

TheDouble-ClutchBandit > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 07/17/2014 at 12:47

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I think it's a load of BS too, actually.

http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/l…

3.9?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > TheDouble-ClutchBandit 07/17/2014 at 13:21

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Interesting. I'd forgotten that they continued to produce the 3-door as late as that - it was discontinued for the UK market in 84 and the wildly more popular four-door came out in 81. That one's not a bad mix, really - early enough it's not gone features-crazy, but enough options to make it nice - and I think the 14CUX injection isn't too bad - if complicated. That being an early 3.9 (first year, I think), it may have some cam and other issues down the road, but it's low-miles enough that won't have become a problem yet. If it stays cool, it probably won't drop a liner, either, if it hasn't by now. Probably.

TheDouble-ClutchBandit > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 07/17/2014 at 19:17

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It's a tempting offer but who knows what would actually be wrong with it. I would probably replace a lot of parts just on principle.

TheDouble-ClutchBandit > cazzyodo 07/17/2014 at 19:18

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The Sport is actually very good off-road. Shockingly good, in fact. I wish we had the old V6 ones sold here in the US, they would make good secondhand buys since they seem to be the most reliable Rangie from that era.

djmt1 > TheDouble-ClutchBandit 07/17/2014 at 20:18

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Because they weren't Range Rovers they were Discoverys underneath and if given a choice between a Disco and RR on a mission from her majesty to carve out another empire I would choose the Disco in a heartbeat. People tend to forget that Range Rovers are essentially off roading Rolls Royces and so while they can go off road very well there is a lot more to go wrong.

Another thing I find weird is that over in the states, British cars have a rep for unreliability where as over here in Blighty, American cars are essentially ticking time bombs for break downs. Maybe it's something in the North Atlantic air.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 07/17/2014 at 20:24

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I would much rather have the 14cux than the 13cu or SU's. The biggest problems are pick up coils, ignition modules, and other age related electric Lucas-y brittle connector problems.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > TheDouble-ClutchBandit 07/17/2014 at 20:25

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That v6 is stupid. There really is nothing more to be said about it.

TheDouble-ClutchBandit > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 07/17/2014 at 20:30

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Why?

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > TheDouble-ClutchBandit 07/17/2014 at 20:31

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Living in the Pacific Northwest and being a former rover tech at an indie shop, I've known lots of people who use their rangie's the they are meant to be used, newer ones included. I have also been one of them. Had a lifted p38 with steelies and knobby tires that I took out on occasion. Also, DeMuro bought arguably the least reliable of the newer style rangie's,with the hope that it would break so he would get his money out of the CarMax warranty. Nice article though, I mostly agree with everything, just wanted to point out the flip side does exist.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > TheDouble-ClutchBandit 07/17/2014 at 20:37

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Slow as hell, like passed by a mid eighties 3.5 rover slow, and pretty much the same fuel mileage as the v8. Also, more problematic than the v8. The aj34(lr34) is actually quite good. Whereas the Ford v6 was antiquated 15 years ago.

TheDouble-ClutchBandit > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 07/17/2014 at 20:39

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First: Thank you.

Second: Yes absolutely. My argument is that the minority of RR drivers actually use them the way they are meant to be used, which is unfortunately true. The P38 series is lovely. How is the reliability long term? I've heard mostly that it's not that bad, actually.

TheDouble-ClutchBandit > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 07/17/2014 at 20:41

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Really? I've read that the V6 used in the Sport was pretty reliable.

Have you heard anything about the new V6 in the new Sport?

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > TheDouble-ClutchBandit 07/17/2014 at 21:00

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I didn't mean that it isn't reliable. Should have clarified a bit better. I just meant that the v8 is better. In every way.

Sorry, I know basically nothing about the stuff that's still under warranty. I've been away from rovers too long.

TheDouble-ClutchBandit > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 07/17/2014 at 21:10

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Ok, I understand now. Have you done work on RR engines before?

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > TheDouble-ClutchBandit 07/17/2014 at 21:12

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That would be an understatement. Although much less on the AJ than the m60 or Buick /rover v8.

TheDouble-ClutchBandit > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 07/17/2014 at 21:19

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In your opinion then, which engine has been most reliable? I get a different answer from just about everyone haha

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > TheDouble-ClutchBandit 07/17/2014 at 21:24

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The AJ. Bear in mind, I'm in the US so I know nothing of the diesels aside from 300tdi, which I hate for personal reasons.

TheDouble-ClutchBandit > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 07/17/2014 at 21:27

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Great, thank you for the insight. Why specifically are you avert to the diesels?

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > TheDouble-ClutchBandit 07/17/2014 at 22:14

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Diesels in general don't bother me. It's just that me and the 300tdi don't get along very well. We've gotten into a few fights, so now to keep things civil we don't generally associate with one another. The 4JB1T 2.8 Isuzu on the other hand is a friend of mine as long as he isn't hanging out with his friend ZF 4HP22. You see, ZF is a bad influence on 4J, he makes him look stupid and do stupid things. 4J gets along much better with R380.

landrover-man > TheDouble-ClutchBandit 07/28/2014 at 14:52

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I've had a new 2006 LR3 HSE, a new 2009 LR3 HSE and currently a new in late 2012 LR4HSE LUX. The first 2 only had 1 burned out brake tail light bulb in 3 years. So far the 2012 has been perfect. The fact that I haven't had a burned out tail light may have something to do with the fact it is LED. Not one squeak or rattle in any of them, not one single recall on any of them, that's huge in itself. I've had all 3 off roading.

I'm not saying some are without problems, even many of my friends who drive upper end BMW Audi or Mercedes have problems. Having driven 3, I must be very lucky... or... they are more reliable than is led to believe.

TheDouble-ClutchBandit > landrover-man 07/28/2014 at 18:48

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I think it's probably a combination of both luck and the rumor being a little too exaggerated. I've heard of people who bought RRs in the mid-2000s and have had perfectly reliable cars. Of course, I've also heard the exact opposite.

TheOnelectronic > TheDouble-ClutchBandit 12/05/2014 at 16:15

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Then you drive one, and none of this matters, because there is nothing else that drives quite like it.

And the reliability seems to be more of a car-by-car issue. Some people can't go a week without visiting the shop, while our old LR4 made it 120,000 miles without a single major issue.

Svend > TheDouble-ClutchBandit 12/05/2014 at 16:52

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Nice post though the comments on reliability can be attributed to various factors such as a few may be lemons, some aren't cared for like they should be because the owner hasn't used foresite in their purchase to factor in that an expensive vehicle often needs expensive maintenance (whether it's price gouging the customer or not), the owner is merely wanting a trophy to show how well off they have become or as a lot of the times seems to be the case of the owner not knowing how to operate a vehicle of it's ilk.

Driving a Rangie is just as different to a regular car as a Vauxhall Astra is from a Subaru Impreza WRC and time should be taken to know each vehicle before and after purchase.

The U.K. is somewhat different to the U.S. market in regards to these vehicles as sure the hoypoloi drive them on mass but I know cab drivers and truck drivers that drive them almost daily.

The trouble is you can't guarantee how the previous owner has treated them and there will always be that doubt in your mind as to whether it has been thrashed about or treated as an extension of the family and had been loved and well looked after.

It's always worth asking questions on a Land Rover forum and going to a Land Rover Club meet to make yourself aware of what owning a Range Rover entails and what to look out for when buying one. If you can, speak to the previous owner/s and ask questions if you have any, the worst they will do is hang up or ignore you. But this could be said of any vehicle. We all look at and buy cars with rose tinted glasses.

People only ever really talk about the bad and the good if it is mentioned is sidelined early on because something being good isn't as interesting as all the tales of woe. So I always take reliability issues with a grain of salt and delve deeper for answers to the questions I have.

TheDouble-ClutchBandit > TheOnelectronic 12/05/2014 at 16:53

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I have driven one, and I didn't really get Range Rovers past the aesthetics until I drove one. Truly truly great. It all made sense after that.

Point being, even their reputation for being unreliable is unreliable.

TheDouble-ClutchBandit > Svend 12/05/2014 at 16:59

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During and after writing the article, I started doing some more research on the whole thing, and what I gathered from it all is this: Range Rovers are certainly not the most reliable cars on the road. Can they be reliable? Yes. In order for them to be reliable, do you need to treat them as if they were made of glass? Not necessarily. It depends on a lot of things, and if you get a secondhand one, as you mentioned, the previous owner is definitely the best person to talk to. They're fantastic cars in their own right, and to me, they are definitely worth it if you have the money and a little patience (at times). The forum crowd are great people for advice, definitely.

Svend > TheDouble-ClutchBandit 12/05/2014 at 17:12

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I'd say owning a Land Rover can either be like owning a car or you can let it open your horizons and let you explore things and do stuff you wouldn't think of doing with most other vehicles. Joining a Land Rover club is a must when owning one and the club like the vehicle becomes an extension of the family, there will be ups and downs and the occasional tear before bedtime but that's what a Land Rover is, it's a part of the family like a cat or a dog isn't just a pet but a family member who is loved.

The right club can open your eyes and create a whole new experience to driving. I'd go as far to say that the Land Rover crowd are by far the best people I've ever spoken to or dealt with.

mattc993 > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 12/05/2014 at 17:18

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Yeah, you can absolutely custom order a Rangie to spec.

You can bet your lunch that the salesman is going to try to sell/bully you into the one on his lot before he waits 6+ months for his commission though.

TheDouble-ClutchBandit > Svend 12/05/2014 at 18:14

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It's a shame that we don't get Defenders in the US easily, because I bet there'd be a much bigger following and wider fan base. As a Southern Californian, it pains me to see all the Rangies with 22 inch rims and blacked out lights that never go off road. On occasion, you'll see one with a few surfboards strapped to the top with a bunch of mud on the side, and you get the feeling that the driver is also a member of a LR club.

Svend > TheDouble-ClutchBandit 12/05/2014 at 18:49

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I love the Defender but unless you really need something of it's like, it's a bit over rated. A Disco or Rangie will do just as well and feel better on the road where you'll probably be spending most of the time anyway.

A Disco being the best compromise for off roadability, daily driving and price. They can all be tricked out for better off roading with a massive range of aftermarket suppliers for whatever you can possibly think of.

I'd happily take this 1998 Disco 300TDi Commercial.

TheDouble-ClutchBandit > Svend 12/05/2014 at 18:57

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That first image is brilliant, I love those mods. That's another thing, the 3 door Disco wasn't ever offered stateside, so I feel like we're missing out on some quirkiness. If we had those here, I'd be scouring Craigslist for one right this moment. I think some are eligible for import now, at least early models. Always wanted to take one through the Pacific Northwest/Pacific Northwest of Canada.

Svend > TheDouble-ClutchBandit 12/05/2014 at 19:08

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Do it. The 300TDi is a good sturdy take anywhere, repair anywhere engine. More refined and more power than the 200TDi.

Icelandic Discos look the dogs proverbial.

There is a 1996 Disco 2.5 300TDI, 120,000 miles, in immaculate condition for £2,290.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/adv…

TheDouble-ClutchBandit > Svend 12/05/2014 at 19:16

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It's so tempting, I figure within a few years I'll cave in a buy some LR product for offloading purposes. That Icelandic Disco is definitely up there on the cool scale, literally and figuratively. Do you recommend the auto or manual? I've heard from a lot of people that autos are the better option off road, but intuitively I would think the manual is more capable.

Svend > TheDouble-ClutchBandit 12/05/2014 at 19:27

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I couldn't say really. I've never driven any car with an automatic before never mind a Landie but I'd rather have a manual all the same, less to go wrong and when it does, easier to limp with and repair.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > TheDouble-ClutchBandit 12/05/2014 at 20:35

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I'm pretty involved with the Land Rover club scene over here on the East Coast and I can tell you that it is a very tight nit community. There is the odd asshole but they typically don't stick around for too long, and one of the great advantages with clubs is the parts network. It's my experience that every LR enthusiast hoards parts (hey you never know when you will blow a CV joint on the trails) so you can normally find a good condition second hand anything for relatively cheap.

Manual Disco's are very few and far between here in the US, and only D1's. The only D2's with manual engines are transmission swaps but the zf auto box isn't that bad actually. Granted it's puts down less (marginally though) torque and bhp to the wheels but off road it isn't noticeable. The only advantage that the R380 box has off road is that you can rock the truck back and forth if you're stuck, which you can't in the auto. Now that being said I'd rather have the R380 (it's a future add for my D2) however I get by on the auto just fine.

TheDouble-ClutchBandit > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. 12/05/2014 at 23:47

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Thanks for the info, that's great to know. I'll for sure be joining a club then, when I eventually get a LR. I've been considering importing a D1 3 door, since it's something I could even use to get groceries and is more practical than my fun car.

As for the gearbox, I think I'll also go manual. It seems like a solid transmission, and I do prefer to row my own, despite my Kinja name.

TheDouble-ClutchBandit > Svend 12/05/2014 at 23:48

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Manual it is then. Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it.

What model do you have?